Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 17

02/12/2008 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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01:07:29 PM Start
01:08:15 PM Overview: Southeast Region
02:16:04 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview: Southeast Region TELECONFERENCED
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                       February 12, 2008                                                                                        
                           1:07 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kyle Johansen, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Anna Fairclough                                                                                                  
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                       
Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                      
Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW: SOUTHEAST REGION                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MALCOLM MENZIES, Regional Director                                                                                              
Southeast Region                                                                                                                
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided an overview of the Southeast                                                                    
Region projects and answered questions.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN YOST, Project Manager                                                                                                    
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on the Juneau Access                                                                  
plan, one of the Southeast Region projects.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KYLE JOHANSEN called the House Transportation Standing                                                                  
Committee meeting to order at 1:07:29 PM.  Representatives                                                                    
Johansen, Keller,  Salmon, Doogan,  Johnson, and  Fairclough were                                                               
present at the call to order.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW: SOUTHEAST REGION                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:08:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  announced that the  only order of  business would                                                               
be the  presentation of  an overview of  the Southeast  Region by                                                               
the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:08:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MALCOLM MENZIES, Regional  Director, Southeast Region, Department                                                               
of  Transportation  &  Public Facilities  (DOT&PF),  presented  a                                                               
summary of  the current  programs and  projects in  the Southeast                                                               
Region of DOT&PF.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  turned the committee's  attention to  his Powerpoint                                                               
entitled  "An   Overview  of   Southeast  Region   Department  of                                                               
Transportation &  Public Facilities."  He  highlighted that slide                                                               
1  shows  Alaska  overlaid  on  the  continental  United  States,                                                               
pointing out  the Southeast Region  of DOT&PF is larger  than the                                                               
state  of  Florida.   He  introduced,  on  slides  3 and  4,  the                                                               
management team  for DOT&PF and  remarked that they are  all long                                                               
term employees  of DOT&PF.   He referred to the  Southeast Alaska                                                               
maintenance stations  on slides  4-9 as "the  face" of  DOT&PF in                                                               
the communities".                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:11:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  commented on slide  10 entitled "Our  missions [sic]                                                               
is  accomplished  by:",  that  there are  245  employees  in  the                                                               
Southeast  Region,  about  8  percent  of  the  DOT&PF  statewide                                                               
workforce.   He explained  that when  gauged by  size, geographic                                                               
region,  mileage, bridges,  buildings,  or population,  Southeast                                                               
Alaska is 6-10 percent of  Alaska, therefore the DOT&PF workforce                                                               
size is  in keeping  with these other  parameters.   He mentioned                                                               
that the Southeast  Region does 11-22 percent of all  the DOT &PF                                                               
contract work in  Alaska, with only 8 percent of  the work force,                                                               
as shown  on slide 12.   He noted that  slide 13 depicts  all the                                                               
Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS)  ports in which the Southeast                                                               
Region and AMHS  work together on the  shore facility engineering                                                               
and maintenance.   [The AMHS  is a division  of the DOT&PF].   He                                                               
showed the Southeast Region DOT&PF office in Juneau on slide 14.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES   referred  to   the  two   handouts,  "Construction                                                               
Projects-" and "Design  Projects-" which each list  all the 2008-                                                               
2009  Southeast Region  projects.   He explained  that page  2 of                                                               
each booklet lists  the number, type, and value  of the projects,                                                               
noting that  highway projects  in Southeast Alaska  will be  in 9                                                               
communities  with  37  projects   worth  $216  million,  aviation                                                               
projects  will be  in 6  communities with  7 projects  worth $106                                                               
million,  marine  projects  will  be in  9  communities  with  12                                                               
projects worth  $70 million, and finally,  facility projects will                                                               
be in 7 communities with 7 projects worth $8 million.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  these are  construction projects                                                               
for this next construction season.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES   confirmed  the  projects  were   for  [2008-2009],                                                               
although some projects are ongoing.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  when  a project  is authorized  for                                                               
work in the upcoming season.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES responded  that generally  the  projects would  have                                                               
been authorized  last year for  construction to begin  this year,                                                               
though  the authorization  could be  given  as late  as the  last                                                               
month before construction.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN clarified that  authorization would be made                                                               
the first year and construction would begin the next year.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES  agreed,  adding  that  DOT&PF  tries  to  have  the                                                               
contract available  [for bid]  in the fall  so the  contractor is                                                               
ready to begin construction in the spring.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:15:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked about the efficiencies  of managing                                                               
the Aleutians from the Juneau office.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:17:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded  that the AMHS headquarters  [a division of                                                               
the DOT&PF]  are in Juneau.   Originally, AMHS was a  division of                                                               
the Harbors and  Docks section of the old  Public Works Facility.                                                               
He mentioned DOT&PF  has been working on the  shore facilities of                                                               
AMHS  since  the marine  highway's  creation.   He  related  that                                                               
DOT&PF  sends  people  out  to meet  with  the  communities,  the                                                               
captains, and the crew to  discuss locations for vessel ports and                                                               
the DOT&PF  construction staff goes to  overview the construction                                                               
of the  facilities, working closely with  the marine contractors.                                                               
He  allowed  that  if  it  is more  economical  for  these  state                                                               
construction projects, the Southeast  Region will use people from                                                               
the  Central  Region  [DOT&PF],  though   to  date  most  of  the                                                               
projects' design and construction  is handled by Southeast Region                                                               
personnel.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:18:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   JOHNSON   asked   if  [DOT&PF]   is   the   only                                                               
[Department]  to design  ports,  and if  this  requires a  unique                                                               
skill set.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  explained that  the Ports  and Harbors  [Section] of                                                               
DOT&PF  has three  staff for  design work,  one person  in Juneau                                                               
[Southeast Region] and two others in the Central Region.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked Mr.  Menzies to explain  a project,                                                               
suggesting Kodiak.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:20:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES explained  that Kodiak  is a  new site  for an  AMHS                                                               
terminal.   He noted  DOT&PF is working  closely with  the Kodiak                                                               
city  management  to locate  and  design  a  port facility.    He                                                               
mentioned  there  have  also  been  many  public  meetings.    He                                                               
understood the  land for  the facility is  being leased  from the                                                               
city.  He  noted the port is being designed  specifically for the                                                               
ferry service  to Kodiak, and  the project is scheduled  to begin                                                               
construction  this fall.   He  mentioned  the design  team is  in                                                               
Juneau, and there  have been project meetings both  in Juneau and                                                               
Kodiak.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH mentioned that  she serves on the House                                                               
Resources  Standing Committee,  and one  committee issue  is with                                                               
the  introduction  of invasive  and  noxious  species across  the                                                               
state's  borders.   She asked  how DOT&PF  is managing  to ensure                                                               
that no invasive species are brought into the state.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:22:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  replied that he  could only answer  in generalities,                                                               
but he  would ask Reuben Yost  to speak.  He  reported that there                                                               
is a problem with invasive  species on Southeast Alaska highways,                                                               
specifically  around  guardrails.    He noted  that  DOT&PF  does                                                               
monitor equipment  which arrives from  Canada for work  on DOT&PF                                                               
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN  YOST, Project  Manager,  Department  of Transportation  &                                                               
Public  Facilities   (DOT&PF),  relayed  that  as   the  regional                                                               
environmental   coordinator   for   DOT&PF  there   are   several                                                               
procedures the department  uses to reduce the  spread of invasive                                                               
plants, including site evaluation  for invasive plants during the                                                               
project's  design  phase.   He  explained  that  federal  highway                                                               
projects  require removal  of identified  invasive  species.   He                                                               
noted that  if dirt is  going to  be disturbed during  a project,                                                               
the department will isolate the dirt  and burn it, prior to using                                                               
it elsewhere;  furthermore, if soil  is identified  as containing                                                               
an invasive  species, that soil  cannot be moved to  another part                                                               
of the project.   There are invasive plant  stipulations for most                                                               
projects which include steam cleaning  incoming equipment, and no                                                               
use of  soil from beyond  the general  project area.   He allowed                                                               
the  most  difficult problem  for  control  is seed  arriving  on                                                               
vehicles and hikers shoes.   He conveyed that the department uses                                                               
seed  mixes  certified  by the  Alaska  Plant  Materials  Center,                                                               
Department of Natural Resources, near [Palmer].                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:25:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH mentioned  the House Resources Standing                                                               
Committee  heard testimony  that noxious  and invasive  weeds can                                                               
clog  streams, block  salmon spawning,  and create  other serious                                                               
ramifications for Alaska's  ecosystem.  She asked  DOT&PF what is                                                               
being done to prevent cross contamination.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if someone  from DOT&PF would  discuss this                                                               
with the committee at a future meeting.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON,  referring to the  "construction projects"                                                               
handout, asked what  the listing of $108 million [on  page 2] for                                                               
Juneau entailed.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES explained that this  referred to the list of projects                                                               
on pages 11-13  [of the construction projects  handout] which are                                                               
all  Juneau projects.    He  noted the  bulk  of  the money,  $77                                                               
million, is  for the Juneau  Access project, as mentioned  in the                                                               
footnote on page  2.  He said  the project is listed  on page 12,                                                               
[Juneau Lynn Canal  Highway, Phases 1-3] and DOT&PF  is hoping to                                                               
bid the project in the next few months.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON again asked about the $108 million.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  explained that  this $108  million is  the sum  of 9                                                               
different  highway  projects in  the  Juneau  area and  that  the                                                               
Juneau Access project is a part of those 9 projects.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked for a  status report on each of these                                                               
phases.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  explained that  the Juneau  Access project  has been                                                               
worked on for many years and  he first became involved with it in                                                               
1964.   He said that DOT&PF  is close to receiving  the U.S. Army                                                               
Corps of  Engineers (USACE)  permit, the  second to  final permit                                                               
for roadway  construction.  He  noted that DOT&PF has  received a                                                               
draft copy of the conditions  for the USACE permit, reviewed this                                                               
draft, and  returned the draft  to USACE with the  DOT&PF request                                                               
for revisions.   He offered his belief that the  USACE [Office of                                                               
the  Chief  Counsel]  and  the   US  Department  of  Justice  are                                                               
reviewing the  draft and  the DOT&PF request  for revisions.   He                                                               
said  the  permit  will  then  go  for  a  final  review  to  the                                                               
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA),  prior to the final permit                                                               
being  issued.   He  mentioned  that  Colonel Wilson,  USACE,  in                                                               
response  to  a  question  while  recently  speaking  in  Juneau,                                                               
answered that the  permit for the Juneau Access  project was soon                                                               
to be released.   Mr. Menzies allowed that "soon"  could be weeks                                                               
or months, but  DOT&PF believes that "soon"  is approximately one                                                               
month.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked  for a review of the  process and the                                                               
time frame once the permits are secured.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES  replied  the  overall  project  from  the  existing                                                               
Glacier Highway  to the Katzehin  River will be  constructed over                                                               
10-12 years.   He said the  project has just received  its second                                                               
annual financial  review from the Federal  Highway Administration                                                               
(FHWA) and DOT&PF  is ready to release the project  to bid within                                                               
weeks after  obtaining the USACE permit.   He said the  first bid                                                               
request will be for a 5  mile project [Juneau Lynn Canal Highway,                                                               
Phase 1]  and then,  for a 15  mile project [Phase  2].   He said                                                               
that DOT&PF currently  has $80 million budgeted  for the project,                                                               
and  the total  construction cost  will be  $350 million,  funded                                                               
through  the  State  Transportation  Improvement  Program  (STIP)                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:31:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  for  an explanation  of the  Juneau                                                               
Access project  relative to  the Southeast  Alaska transportation                                                               
plan.  He said that it was  explained to him as "more road miles,                                                               
fewer ferry miles."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.   MENZIES   responded   that  the   2004   Southeast   Alaska                                                               
transportation plan is a plan of roadway and ferry systems.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked  if the Juneau Access road  is a part                                                               
of  that plan,  and how  much more  road construction  is in  the                                                               
total plan.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  offered his  belief the total  for Juneau  Access is                                                               
about 50  road miles,  replacing about 65  miles of  ferry route;                                                               
and the Petersburg  to Kake highway will be about  54 road miles,                                                               
replacing mainline  ferry service  with shuttle  [ferry] service.                                                               
The other projects still in  the planning stage include the Sitka                                                               
Access project,  a road  north from  Ketchikan, and  another road                                                               
south from  Kake to  Prince of  Wales Island  with a  short ferry                                                               
service.     He  explained  the  Southeast   transportation  plan                                                               
includes both  the Alaska  Marine Highway  System and  the Island                                                               
Ferry Authority, connected with roads.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  if  building the  road will  change                                                               
requirements  for  the  ferry  fleet,   and  will  that  plan  be                                                               
coordinated with the AMHS.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES affirmed that the  DOT&PF regional planner is working                                                               
with  the  AMHS  on  a  master  plan,  and  as  that  plan  nears                                                               
completion,  DOT&PF  will  update  the  Southeast  transportation                                                               
plan.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:34:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  reflected that as this  plan goes forward,                                                               
the requirements  for the  ferry fleet will  change.   He offered                                                               
his  belief the  AMHS would  come  back to  [the legislature  for                                                               
funding],  as the  federal government  does not  like to  pay for                                                               
ferries, to pay for the changes in the ferry fleet.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES  agreed, saying  the  main  ferry fleet  within  the                                                               
Southeast  transportation  plan would  be  reduced  to a  shuttle                                                               
fleet.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  what  the cost  will  be for  these                                                               
changes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES replied that the cost  is only estimated for the road                                                               
system, not the ferry system, and he did not know that cost.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN referred to  the Juneau Access road, asking                                                               
if the  idea is to get  closer to Haines, by  driving further and                                                               
spending less time on the ferry.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES agreed,  saying there will be 50  miles of additional                                                               
road to the  Katzehin River and from there a  short shuttle ferry                                                               
to both  Haines and Skagway.   He said this  would be the  end of                                                               
the  current project,  though DOT&PF  plans a  second project  to                                                               
"hard link" to Skagway and the national highway system.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  if this  was the  project that  ran                                                               
into a federal roadblock.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:36:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES said  this was "viewshed land" and  the National Park                                                               
Service would not  allow the proposed project,  as the Department                                                               
of Transportation  Act prohibits  development should there  be an                                                               
alternative.    He clarified  that  the  project  is not  in  the                                                               
Klondike Gold  Rush National Historical  Park, but in  the park's                                                               
view.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked  Mr. Menzies to explain  what will be                                                               
built in  the first  50 miles  of the  project [before  the ferry                                                               
terminal].  He noted the  construction projects handout describes                                                               
a two-lane gravel road.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES  responded  that  there will  be  a  two-lane  paved                                                               
highway, with a  maintenance station at Comet Beach,  and a ferry                                                               
terminal at  the Katzehin River,  which will service  two shuttle                                                               
ferries for Haines and Skagway.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:37:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  there was an  annual maintenance                                                               
cost estimate.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded  that there is a  maintenance cost estimate                                                               
in  the  Environmental  Statement,  but  he  could  not  remember                                                               
exactly  what it  was,  other than  it was  based  on roads  with                                                               
similar difficulties, such as the Klondike Highway.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN reviewed that the  cost for the first three                                                               
phases was $77  million.  He asked what would  be accomplished if                                                               
no more money was made available.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded that the  first three phases would build an                                                               
additional 35 miles of road with bridges to Comet Beach.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked if  it would be  possible to  have a                                                               
ferry terminal there.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES responded  that a  terminal  would not  be at  Comet                                                               
Beach,  but,  rather,  in  Slate Creek  Cove  near  the  proposed                                                               
Kensington mine  port facility.   He  mentioned that  DOT&PF also                                                               
has  a temporary  marine highway  terminal  facility planned  for                                                               
this cove.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked how far  this would be from  the end                                                               
of the construction project.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  responded that  Slate Creek is  about 20  miles past                                                               
the present  end of Glacier  Highway, and 30-40 miles  before the                                                               
proposed Katzehin terminus.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  rephrasing  his question  asked  if  just                                                               
[Phases 1-3]  were built, how much  road would be built  past the                                                               
[Slate Creek Cove]  ferry terminal that is scenic but  of no help                                                               
toward arriving in Haines.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  responded there would  be an additional 30  miles of                                                               
road.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:40:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  clarified his  question, asking  if DOT&PF                                                               
just spent $77 million, where would the road end.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES responded  that  about  20 miles  of  road would  be                                                               
built.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if the  temporary ferry terminal site                                                               
is near the end of those 20 miles of road.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  responded that the end  of the road would  be beyond                                                               
the proposed  ferry terminal site.   The road  construction would                                                               
end at Comet Beach, about 8 miles beyond Slate Creek Cove.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  asked that  if just  the first  3 [Phases]                                                               
were completed, where in that area could a terminal be built.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded  that the terminal would be  built at Slate                                                               
Creek Cove,  about 15 miles beyond  the current end of  the road.                                                               
The  environmental statement  discusses  both  Sawmill Creek  and                                                               
Slate Creek Cove as possible ferry terminal sites.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  clarified that  there  would  then be  an                                                               
additional 5-8 miles of road beyond the ferry terminal.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON reflected that he  had been to Berners Bay,                                                               
and he asked  whether the proposed road is  going straight across                                                               
or around the bay.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  explained that  the road would  go into  the uplands                                                               
area of  Berners Bay, past the  main tidal zone, and  would cross                                                               
Berners Bay  with large  bridges at the  Lace and  Antler Rivers.                                                               
He  said that  each of  the bridges  would be  about a  half mile                                                               
long.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  referred  to prior  testimony  that  some                                                               
"large  projects force  other  projects out  of  the running  for                                                               
money."   He asked  if the  funding of  this large  Juneau Access                                                               
project is going to affect any other [transportation] projects.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  offered his  belief that  the DOT&PF  financial plan                                                               
outlines  the Juneau  Access project  so it  will not  affect any                                                               
other projects for Southeast and Interior Alaska.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN asked if there  would be any contesting for                                                               
funds with Anchorage.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES offered  his belief  that  there would  always be  a                                                               
contest  for  funds,  but  not  a contest  that  would  hurt  any                                                               
projects.    He explained  that  DOT&PF  has planned  the  Juneau                                                               
Access project financial plan to work within the STIP.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN asked  how  much  the cost  for  the project  has                                                               
changed since the last fiscal analysis.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded that the price  tag has gone up between 30-                                                               
40  percent, currently  to $350  million.   He allowed  there has                                                               
already been  $24 million spent,  and the  costs are rising.   He                                                               
mentioned there was an attempt  to inflation proof the project by                                                               
purchasing materials that will be used for the project.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:45:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN asked  if there  were any  more questions  on the                                                               
Juneau Access project.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH discussed  green house  gases and  the                                                               
long term effect of carbon  emissions when planning a road system                                                               
versus  a ferry  system.    She offered  her  belief  that a  car                                                               
produces lower carbon emissions than the current ferry system.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:47:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON allowed  that  the proposed  cost of  the                                                               
project  is $350  million,  there has  been  $24 million  already                                                               
spent,  and  there is  $77  million  currently budgeted  for  the                                                               
project.  He asked what the remaining $250 million will produce.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES responded  that the  $250 million  will be  budgeted                                                               
through  the STIP  process.   He explained  this will  pay for  a                                                               
paved 2 lane  road with passing lanes and scenic  pullouts to the                                                               
Katzehin  River, with  a ferry  terminal at  the terminus,  three                                                               
ferries, and improvements  for the ferry terminals  in Haines and                                                               
Skagway.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  offered her  belief that  the proposed                                                               
ferries  were different  than those  currently being  used.   The                                                               
proposed ferries  will be shuttle  ferries with a lower  cost and                                                               
lower carbon emissions.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:49:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES said that the  proposed ferries for the Juneau Access                                                               
project  would be  similar  to  the smaller  day  ferries of  the                                                               
Island Ferry Authority.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN  asked  for   the  cost  estimate  of  the                                                               
proposed road the rest of the way to Skagway.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES   explained  there  was   a  cost  in   the  initial                                                               
Environmental Impact  Statement for the  road to Skagway,  but he                                                               
was unsure of the cost.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  YOST  explained that  the  2004  draft Environmental  Impact                                                               
Statement  did  evaluate  an   alternative  for  construction  of                                                               
additional highway to Skagway at a  cost of $70 million, but that                                                               
cost estimate  has not been updated.   He noted there  is already                                                               
40 miles  of road north out  of Juneau and an  additional 50 road                                                               
miles  would be  built, eliminating  about 100  ferry miles.   He                                                               
explained that after driving the 90  road miles, there would be a                                                               
7-mile  ferry shuttle  to Haines  or a  15-mile ferry  shuttle to                                                               
Skagway.    He  estimated  there   would  be  eight  daily  ferry                                                               
roundtrips to Haines and six to Skagway.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN clarified that the  price is $70 million as                                                               
there is only 15 miles of road.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR    JOHANSEN   explained    that   the    Southeast   Region                                                               
transportation  plan  is for  more  roads  and smaller  day  boat                                                               
shuttle ferries.   He allowed  that members of the  committee are                                                               
concerned with  the operating costs  of the  AMHS.  He  asked Mr.                                                               
Menzies to describe the practical  challenges of road building in                                                               
this area.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:53:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES said that the  first challenge is acquisition of land                                                               
for the  right of way.   Most of the land  ownership in Southeast                                                               
Alaska is either  federal or Alaskan Native  Corporation, but the                                                               
state still has to acquire the  right of way.  The next challenge                                                               
is environmental because, as we  live in a predominantly wetlands                                                               
rainforest,  there  are  many time  consuming  permits  required.                                                               
These permits  include the National  Environmental Policy  Act of                                                               
1969 (NEPA)  process, the Department  of Natural  Resources (DNR)                                                               
coastal permits,  and the  USACE permits.   He allowed  the final                                                               
challenge to be terrain and topography  and he described a few of                                                               
the highway projects that he has built.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:56:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if  interactions with  environmental groups                                                               
and  the  pending  lawsuits  affect  permitting  in  the  Tongass                                                               
National Forest.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES   replied  that  the  Southeast   Region  department                                                               
regularly deals  with these  lawsuits and that  for the  last 1.5                                                               
years  DOT&PF   has  been   involved  in   a  lawsuit   with  six                                                               
conservation groups.   He offered his belief this  was a delaying                                                               
process, as  groups sue  over a  number of  things, all  of which                                                               
must be  sorted out.   Currently,  these conservation  groups are                                                               
suing  over the  NEPA  process.   He  offered  his belief  DOT&PF                                                               
expects these  same conservation  groups to  sue when  the Juneau                                                               
Access project goes to bid.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  opined that  it was  necessary to  understand the                                                               
challenges and  obstacles to  the Southeast  transportation plan.                                                               
He  offered  his belief  that  it  was  necessary to  lessen  the                                                               
financial burden on  the general fund by building  more roads and                                                               
implementing a different ferry system.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:59:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH  remarked that  [Anchorage  residents]                                                               
often talk of  moving the capital, without  enough sensitivity to                                                               
the impact  on the Juneau  economy.   She allowed that  people in                                                               
urban Anchorage want  access to the capital  and individuals want                                                               
to be able to drive to the capital,  even if it costs $350 in gas                                                               
to drive.  She said:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     We are  independent people who like  the opportunity to                                                                    
     pull up  at a gas station  and chose to go  down versus                                                                    
     booking  a  ticket on  Alaska  Airlines,  or any  other                                                                    
     carrier, to  get us here,  and so  I do support  you in                                                                    
     trying to put a road connection through ...                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH,  referring to  preservationists versus                                                               
environmentalists, offered  her belief that her  early government                                                               
record shows  she is  more environmentally  friendly, but  she is                                                               
not a preservationist.  She  offered her belief there are reasons                                                               
"to  chop down  a few  trees" to  acquire access.   She  said she                                                               
sympathized both with those who  want their communities to remain                                                               
the same,  and those  who want  to have  access [to  the capital]                                                               
from  other  areas.    She  declared  that  continued  litigation                                                               
against  road   connections  jeopardizes  local   economies,  not                                                               
allowing these  communities to grow  to their  fullest potential.                                                               
She announced she wants to raise  the ante and elevate the Juneau                                                               
Access issue  because the  capital move is  a part  of connecting                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  what the  completion date  for the                                                               
first 11 miles of the access road  is if the project starts in 12                                                               
months.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  asked if he means  the 50 miles of  road from Juneau                                                               
to the Katzehin River.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON replied that he  means the time to get the                                                               
first car on the ferry to Haines.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES replied that it would be 10-12 years.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked  what   is  being  done  with  the                                                               
existing ferry system to bridge those 10-12 years.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:03:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES said that DOT&PF is  working with AMHS.  He said that                                                               
currently the  M/V Malaspina is the  day boat for the  Lynn Canal                                                               
route, and  the M/V  Malaspina should be  in service  longer than                                                               
10-12  years.   He offered  his  belief that  the referred  10-12                                                               
years is  the maximum time, but  could be shortened if  the funds                                                               
are available.   He  reiterated that  DOT&PF is  discussing plans                                                               
for shuttle ferries with AMHS.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  expressed  his  concern  that  the  road                                                               
connection would not be completed  prior to the disintegration of                                                               
the ferry system.  He noted  the need to have a smooth transition                                                               
of the two projects, without a loss of service.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES replied this is a part of the master plan with AMHS.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:05:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN offered  his belief that there  is quite an                                                               
engineering  challenge to  build the  Juneau Access  road and  to                                                               
keep it open.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MENZIES replied  the construction  of Juneau  Access is  not                                                               
unlike the building of similar roads in Alaska.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:08:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN  asked  about  the  progress  of  other  projects                                                               
including  Prince  of Wales,  Shelter  Cove,  and Thorne  Bay  to                                                               
Kasaan.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  replied that Thorne Bay  to Kasaan was not  a DOT&PF                                                               
project, that  DOT&PF is suggesting  this road be built  with the                                                               
military assistance program.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if this was  "on the job training"  for the                                                               
military road building.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded  that this training is  primarily for civil                                                               
engineering reservists from all military branches.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN asked  about DOT&PF  plans for  Shelter Cove  and                                                               
similar models to  link existing logging roads, which  are not up                                                               
to any standards other than for logging trucks.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES  offered an example  of the Kake to  Petersburg road.                                                               
He explained that DOT&PF is  spending general fund money to build                                                               
the road,  thereby shortening the  connecting ferry route.   This                                                               
road is part of the Southeast Region plan.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  asked if  DOT&PF is  capitalizing on  places like                                                               
Shelter Cover where  a short amount of road can  be built to gain                                                               
more road access.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES replied that the  Shelter Cove project will construct                                                               
9 miles  of road, thereby connecting  50 miles of road  to access                                                               
resources for the Ketchikan area.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN asked about the  Gravina project public use plans.                                                               
He asked when  a bridge will be  built, and the roads  be open to                                                               
the public.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES explained the current road projects on Gravina.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:16:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DOOGAN asked  how  much money  was  spent on  the                                                               
Gravina Access roadway project.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENZIES responded  that Gravina Highway is  the project being                                                               
built with the  Gravina Access dedicated road funds.   It will be                                                               
3.5 miles of gravel road with two bridges for $27 million.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Transportation Standing  Committee meeting was adjourned  at 2:17                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            

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